Trebles

good work, nic
dont believe many people will disagree with the analysis

Liverpool also completed a treble in 1984. European Cup, League title and League Cup.
And ManUre have the chance to repeat this treble as well now.

GOOD

Don't worry liv fan..they won't.
I know this great article is about treble winners. But you could find another picture! I don't want to see man utd holding a CL cup days before the match!! There are fabulous pics of Barça's celebration in 2006

ME again.. i was wondering if you guys are nervous about the game.. i usually get nervous we we play madrid (having problems to sleep), valencia, even sevilla, and my level of desperation was huge before 2006 CL final. But this time, nothing, zero..
i really hope it's because i trust the team so much that i feel there's nothing to worry about.
what about you guys?

Ha ha ha Maria Ines...that is funny. You have plenty to be happy about so, I am not surprised that you are sleeping well.

@NIC,

No comment on this one.
It is pretty clear what the outcome should be!!! Great research...thanks man!!
This can be useful when arguing against those pesky Man U fans!!!

Wow!!! what a statistics....i hope one last win to be added in the statistics in favour of Barca...t
Maria Ines is right about the picture.. .lol

by the way...will it be treble for Man U...i thought only if FA cup counted for treble.....is carling cup counted for Treble?

the stats are impressive lads and your team is to be admired too, but in my opinion the the competition that you faced in La Liga this season was poor compared to Uniteds 99 season, and no team really provided Barca with a stern test. The fact that Madrid put up a spirited fight should not gloss over that they are a poor side who would struggle to finish in the EPLs top 4 or 5 teams. Also the 99 team progressed from a Champions league group that contained yourselves and Bayern Munich and then proceeded to eliminate Inter and Juventus on the way to the final, compare that with your march to Rome.
Chelsea, who are the 3rd placed team in England, provided your sternest test this season, and it was a test that some might say you were fortunate to pass.
I believe next weeks final has paired the two best teams in Europe together, but as Craig said, stats dont win football matches, players do, so we will see you in Rome my friend, hope you enjoy the match, just not as much as us, Respect.

Frd the Red, I gotta disagree. Sure, Chelsea made for one very tough nut to crack, but when was the last time you saw an English side play that defensively in a domestic match? That was a one off, surely. Nobody plays like that except--in Champions League or World Cup or anything else that can pay off with a little short run luck. You don't think Chelsea were hoping for a little luck in that tie? Iniesta's shot could be seen as pure luck, or ... as the culmination of an attacking club who didn't quit even with a man down and deep into injury time.

Barça faced a lot of clubs in domestic play who were happy to park in front of their own goal. Maybe not with as much extreme as Chelsea did in the semi final, but pretty close.

I don't think Man U will do that this time around, since they have a lot of talent. Here's hoping anyway. If it turns out an attacker's game, then may the best side win. We as the fans can't be the lesser for such a treat of skill and elán.

And, Maria, I'm a little nervous about the final, yeah. Man Utd are a very good side led by a coach that has no qualms about using tactical measures if it looks like it may draw an advantage. They probably won't pack their box like Chelsea did, because they'll have to score, themselves, this time around as well. I do think Man U will play defensively and work the counter as much as possible. No club can truly play attacking football against Barça, because it's suicide. So, tactics will be a necessity, and that means a more defensive game with a lightning counter. Manchester United are more than capable of doing just that.

Seems like our red friend here doesn't really know, or watch, La Liga frequently. I do watch EPL and besides man utd and arsenal, the other teams seem to play anything but football. Teams like bolton, man city, everton, hull and so on, which have been defeated by the same fantastic man utd you defend..i've seen recreativo de huelva in spain playing better than them, or at least making some interesting football.
In La Liga, any team can beat anyone, particularly this year. You could see we had problems with valencia (one game), getafe, villarreal or espanyol, all of them being quite different. But we also crushed teams like sevilla, atletico de madrid, and madrid itself. I guess something similar happened to manutd..some good games, some bad games, fortunately lesser bad games than your opponent.
I really hope man utd manager and players thinks the way you do, about our little competition in La Liga.. but i guess they're not naive, or they wouldn't be so worried about rio ferdinand.
We have always had problems with defensive teams, but we got the most defensive opponent in a CL semifinal, playing away home the 2nd leg. But we are in rome, despite of chelsea and thanks to our football and sacrifice. I suggest you to review manutd's own path to Rome, specially the quality of your last opponent.
You should also remember that the great mauntd last year had a really hard time defeating the worst Barça version of the past 4 years.
We will see what happens. Hopefully good football and limited cheating.

Welcome Fred the Red, hope to see some more comments from United fans over the next few days. To see more comments from United fans I posted a link to this article on the excellent Red Ranter blog LINK - it's from comment number 79 onwards. If you are going to post there, keep it respectful, friendly banter only please, Red Ranter is a mate.

no no NO NO NO, i deal with enough man united fans in my daiy life, i DO NOT NEED TO HEAR THEIR ARROGANT AND BIASED views always topped off with their legendary belief of self-entitlement, no. go away united fans, i dont want to hear any of your garbage HERE, on a BARCA blog.

english fans are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO short minded. god it pisses me off. here are some facts, champions league winners since the 90s:
1990: AC Milan
1991: Red Star
1992: Barca
1993: Marseille
1994: AC Milan
1995: Ajax
1996: Juventus
1997: Dortmund
1998: Real Madrid
1999: Man U
2000: Real Madrid
2001: Bayern Munich
2002: Real Madrid
2003: AC Milan
2004: Porto
2005: Liverpool
2006: Barca
2007: AC Milan
2008: Man U

notice anything? well ill point it out, english teams were next to NOTHING in europe until about 4/5 years ago. United was the only team competiting, Liverpool barely, and Arsenal and Chelsea were squadoosh in Europe before, the only teams that mattered were from spain and italy. and there wasnt ANYWHERE close to the arrogance shown by the spanish nor italians as the english portray now. its like only the past 5 years are the only ones that have actually happened.

and that brings me to another point, why has this changed, OH YES, that magic thing, MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!! your league needed to be bailed out by russian mafiosos, american golddiggers, and whoever else wants to make a buck. i use to be opposed to the 6+5, but i hope now deeply the EU backs down and that happens, cause then the english teams are to put it frankly, are F***ED.

and you know what, i actually was quite impressed with united's 99 stats, i actually didnt think they were anywher near as good as that.

but then HERE COMES the united with their, our run was better.

so your 99 treble was better, why? cause la liga is in a slump right now? fine, agreed. BUT ENGLISH FANS ACT LIKE YOUR LEAGUE WAS ALWAYS TOP NOTCH, and well, IT WASNT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

99 season, u won a treble, and yes it was excellent and your team was quite excellent, but year League? PLZ. step out of your little bubble of short term memory. in 99 arsenal pushed you, and that was still early on in wengers career, they were not yet the team of a few years later. 3rd was chelsea, and that was when chelsea were still a team of cosmoploitan stars that never got it going when it counted. they had one decent run in europe ever before, and we crushed them in that epic comeback. 4th leeds, nuff said, they had one good year with some talent and a lot of bruts that used strong physical tactics to make up for their lack of skills. and liverpool, well 7th. so was your league so amazing in 99?? not to mention in detail the MILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLIONS of last second goals that gave u wins and draw, puke puke puke.

well now lets look onto the 99 final itself, wihtout taking away from a very impressive run against two top italian teams before. but the final itself, united were completley outplayed the entire damn match. bayern hit the post twice to put the game beyond you,and then the luckiest 3 minutes of football changed everything. it brought about the biggest wave of glory hunters the world has ever seen. so yeah ur 99 run was impressive, but the final came down to the most pure form of luck ever. and i dont even want to hear that fighting spirit nonsense.

BUT when barca score vs chelsea, ill use our friends direct quote "we were fortunate to pass". but NO, your win in the dying seconds was not "fortunate" was it, it was deserved, nay, it was destiny, cause thats man united, we deserve everyting just because.

and of course, we get the madrid are so bad diss, liverpool canned them, etc..... well why dont we mention that madrid were one of the best teams in europe for many many years before and well they were in la liga werent they? so yeah madrid may have been 4th or 5th in england this yr, but they would have prob won in england every year if not been second for the years 1990-2002, so what about that?

thats not even to mention the tactics played by chelsea and even united last year. have united ever had to play against an 11 man defense against a top european team, where worldclass players care only about playing in their final 3rd? NOOO, cause when chelsea play united you play each others like equals, u actually play football. but against barca, its a training excercise of attack for defense. id like to see united get subjected to a constant parking he bus tactics. but i wont go into this more. in england its all about the result anyhow.

but, i have ranted enough. i just HATE the short term memory that exists in that country now. its just so incredibly arrogant and ignorant. im not even asking for an acknowledgment that your teams are only so good (mostly) because of huge influx of cash, im not even asking for english fans to make light of your dominance.

im just asking to have some humility. and open your eyes beyond 4 years, look at things objectivly. everything done by teams outside of england is discredited, only the feats of the mighty english top 4 mean anything now. its disgusting.

but football goes in cycles, meaures will eventually be installed to combat the ridiculous financial nature in the EPL now, italy and spain will regroup. thats how it works. i cant wait for the day fergie leaves united, cant wait to see the team crash back down to earth from their little fantasy football land they currently live in.

whatever happens in rome, im just so happy i dont support man united, i really feel privledged not to.

in my passion i didnt make my 1st point clearly enough, the winners of the CL didnt show enough how england was actually MILES behind everyone else before. so lets see runners up:

1990: Benfica
1991: Marseille
1992: Sampdoria
1993: AC Milan
1994: Barca
1995: AC Milan
1996: Ajax
1997: Juventus
1998: Juventus
1999: Bayern Munich
2000: Valencia
2001: Valencia
2002: Leverkusen
2003: Juventus
2004: Monaco
2005: AC Milan
2006: Arsenal
2007: Liverpool
2008: Chelsea


so out of all those, italians won or were second 12 times, spain 8 times, england 7 times, france 3, germany 4, holland 2, portugal 2, and serbia 1.

oooh oh, my theory looks weak, england is just one behind spain? no. BEFORE the age of cash, in modern football times english teams had well, 1 victory and zero runners up. so that puts them basically on par with portugal and holland.

so yeah, enjoy ur success, right now your league is great. but just dont forget every night before bed time to kiss your pound sterlings and US dollars. thank god that becuase you were so far behind spain, italy and germany a bunch of financial analysts convinced clubs to become publically traded companies.

either do that, or stop being so arrogant and close minded.

liverpool_fan: winning ur league, champs lge and league cup dosent qualify for a treble...i'm sure if spain and italy had 2 domestic cups, there would have been a lot more trebles. in fact, the pesence of 2 domestic cups reduces the level of competition in each one thus they cant be as competitive as domestic cups of countries like spain and italy

Frd d red:
blaugranaboy has said it all.....around 1999 english teams were used for training in the champs league....gosh, even the german league was stronger...try not to be one minded

@Fred The Red,
"Chelsea, who are the 3rd placed team in England, provided your sternest test this season, and it was a test that some might say you were fortunate to pass "
Ok, let's NOT confuse the issues here . All the so called top four in the EPL play Barça the only way they know how by parking the bus .
Chelsea did it this year , MU did the same last year and Liverpool the year before . Barça dominated and outclassed the so called elites of the EPL(less than 20% English players)in both legs of ALL the ties in the last three years . There is NO way that MU will treat the CL final as any of their games in the EPL . They know if they do that they WILL definitely lose . Their only option is to park the bus,rely on counter attacks,use anti-football tactics with 8-9 players defending their penalty area and hope to get lucky with an undeserved goal as happened last year .
So,Fred The Red and the rest of the EPL fans don't flatter yourselves . MU can NOT compete with Barça by playing straight football , football as it is meant to be played . They have to do what they do best by parking their bus . They always have and always will . It takes guts and courage to play your opponents on a level playing field . As the saying goes ; NO GUTS NO GLORY . Those who are cowards in heart deserve no glory !!

shit, i rarely agree with my mate from holland above, but he nailed it there. why cant english teams play us like everybody else? they play themselves in a football match, italians in a football match, madrid in a football match, but barcelona in a hybrid new sport of man versus automobile!! ill agree we also outplayed them almost every leg (but i will give chelsea props 2nd leg, i feel they were

quite excellent). but UNITED, oh lord, against a WEAK barca team last yr, they were a bunch of cowards.

unfortunately, no guts no glory doesnt apply as much in real life. too many teams now are skating by on antifootball bullshit.

saddly, due to our ridiculous squad issues, the final is going to be much tougher than it should be. if we had our full strength team, actually if we just had alves back, i wouldnt be worried at all, just excited.

I don hav much to say about manu fanz.....but

TO Frd The Red....can u honestly tell me how many La liga match have u watched so far??? I live in England...i know EPL fanz very well...as all people(including my home) around me are EPL supporters....and to be honest....most of them even don have any idea about whats going on in La Liga...they know one or two lines that comes in a corner of newspapers like Daily Sun...their football knowledge is:

1) EPL teams and EPL payers..
2) EPL transfer saga...so they know those players whom their team are interested to buy....
3) about outside league and outside players they have almost 0 knowledge.

But me(i strongly almost all these barca fans here) watch most of the games in EPL... and i have idea about the players doing well in EPL....

SOOO>..my conclusion it is only us who can think about statistics and do comparison and make discussion ..... not you EPL guyz who are simply blind outside ur region.

I'm glad Barça decided to go back to the old style striped shirts starting this saturday . Although I'm not too crazy about the away uniforms anything is an improvement over the current hideous shirts . I hope that Nike would just stop f@$#ing with the design in the future !!
LINK

This talk of the premier league being so much better and tougher than La Liga really drives me up the wall. The last time Man Utd played a Spanish team it was against Villareal and those two games ended in nil all draws and the two games between Liverpool and Atletico both finished in one all draws. I just can't see how fans make out that it is so much better than La Liga.

In the quarter final between Chelsea and Liverpool, the two of them actually came out and played against each other but when Chelsea came to play Barca it was backs to the wall time, these tactics pretty much say that your team is better and there is no way we are going to try and play as we did against Liverpool because we will get pulled apart. It pretty much was an admission of fear to not even try and attack. How can Chelsea play one way against the second best team in England and change so dramatically when it comes to playing Barca.

It annoys me when I hear people say "oh Chelsea dominated Barca over the two legs" so here are some stats from the two legs:

Camp Nou
Shots on target: Barca 6 Chelsea 1
Shots wide: Barca 12 Chelsea 2
Corners: Barca 10 Chelsea 2
Fouls Committed: Barca 7 Chelsea 20
Yellow Cards: Barca 2 Chelsea 2
Red Cards: Barca 0 Chelsea 0
Possesion: Barca 65% Chelsea 35%

Stamford Bridge
Shots on target: Chelsea 4 Barca 1
Shots wide: Chelsea 5 Barca 10
Corners: Chelsea 6 Barca 6
Fouls Committed: Chelsea 16 Barca 17
Yellow Cards: Chelsea 4 Barca 3
Red Cards: Chelsea 0 Barca 1
Possesion: Chelsea 36% Barca 64%

So if you add up the stats from each leg I don't know how anybody can say that Chelsea dominated. I've read on numerous sites people saying this but I assume they did'nt bother to check the stats out.

Oh I did'nt pull these out of my ass, they are actually from the official Uefa site

Wow...this is a FIRST!!!

@Blaugranaboy,

Mate for the first time, I agree with you 100%. For once you've made an airtight argument and you are absolutely right. well done!!!

I, however, think that it would be nice to have them comment on the blog because we, Barcelona fans, agreee on most things. So, it opens the debate a bit more. In addition, I want to compare their rants of before and after they are defeated wednesday...boy, that will be fun. Oh yeah, they will be defeated!!!

@ Fcb-Holland

Just after checking the link you uploaded about the new jerseys, I seen them the other day but I was'nt sure if they were the real ones or not, at least now I have confirmation. Did you check out the little video on the left hand side of the page? It is awesome, it makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck!! It really says it all about the tream.... "we are strikers who defend, we are defenders who attack.... WE ARE ONE!!!

this video is pure class. maybe it has been around a while but thats the first time I've seen it.

Barca Barca BARCAAAA!!!!

@Lon-A-Barça,
I always liked the striped shirts much better than the current ones . They remind me of the memorable CL title win in 2005-2006 . Hopefully we can celebrate another CL final win in the new uniforms as well !!

Let's all agree to disagree as the saying goes!

As a United fan, I totally support the views of Fred the Red.

blaugranaboy- The arsenal team of 1999 was one of the strongest arsenal teams ever. Maybe history books will not recognise them as such because they did not win anything- or maybe they will - but they drove the title race right up to the very end.

But the reason why "our" Treble is not going to be superseded is mainly because it was won in such dramatic fashion - so what if Bayern were better than us for the most part in the final (we were definitely the best team on the whole of the competition though)? The way we won it is the stuff of legends.

And also in the 98-99 season, I had the pleasure to watch what several games which are now considered as stuff of legend:
Coming back from two goal down against a Zidane led Juventus and win 3-2 at the stadio delle alpi.

The goal of the century scored by Ryan Giggs in added time after Schmeichel denied Bergkamp in the FA cup semi final replay (a replay which should not have taken place considering we should have gone through having scored a perfectly valid goal in the first match which was diessallowed for some reason...)

As far as I'm concern, the following year (or the year after I'm not sure I remember), we played even better football than in 98-99 and were untouchables in the league, though we failed in europe through naivety ..

The result being that nowadays people remember the 98-99 team more than the 00-01 team, though I would argue that the latter was more talented.

Oh well... I'm raving now.

Truthfully I've not been following barca enough to know if there has been such landmark victories - except the 6-2 mauling of course, and thanks for that; we all love seeing madrid taking a thorough beating ;-) - but you really need matches that are the stuff of legends, liverpool beating ac milan 5-3 was another one - to really etch your name in modern history books.

Hey,
Not sure if this is the place for it, but...
Former Blaugrana Thiago Motta is moving from Genoa to Inter Milan. Nice to see him prospering! I wish him all the best there.
link to espn

@NicoQB,
The goal of the century scored by Ryan Giggs in added time after Schmeichel denied Bergkamp in the FA cup semi final replay .
I am not aware of that goal but are you saying that it was better than Maradona's goal against England in WC 1986 or Messi's goal against Getafe ?
I have to see it to believe it !!

Great analysis. I think it is fair to only compare the two "big clubs" as the European competition was different back then. It would be like comparing apples to oranges. It would be interesting however, to take a look at the stats from Celtic and Ajax. Undoubtedly that Ajax team would merit as one of the bet ever, as I recall it contained most of the total football dutchmen, Cruyff, Neeskens, etc.

I never knew Riyan giggs scored the goal of the century...i wonder how english tabloid ignored this goal(lol),...so far i know mardaona's goal against engand in 86 considered goal of the century in all sort of votes(fans,newsmedias...etc)...if i am not wrong...
can anyone tell me if i am wrong?? if so plz upload the link..i want to see that goal now....

TO NicoQB...sorry to say u again proved u guys are so blind out of ur zone ....pity

Wow, Im glad i logged into here to see the official history of the Champions League and why the english are such shit! Everything goes in cycles and the english clubs are enjoying their spells right now. Their model however IMO is unsustainable and will ultimately backfire, then the Spanish and Italians sides will resurge, and on and on....

@Blaugranaboy = Im sure nic again really enjoys posters to say who should and shouldnt post on his blog. I also enjoy hearing the thoughts from other people, biased just like everyone else is

I still dont doubt that this could likely be called the greatest side ever come May 28th.

@NicoQB,
Can you post a link for Giggs' "goal of the century " ?
In the meantime , watch this .

LINK

Best goal ever selected by vote by Independent.CO.UK ...ohh i could not find Giggs goal of the century in top ten...

LINK

don worry my computer still searching.....

exactly guys, goal of the century is easily maradonas goal, but of course a man u fan appoints it to giggs (which yes was also a very stunning goal). its just what they do, discredit and marginalize everything done by anyone else, whatever united do is "legendary" or "destiny". PUKE PUKE PUKE PUKE PUKE everywhere.

@nicoqb, fine maybe arsenal were a good team in 99, i really wanst trying to discredit them (seeing they are the only english team i like). im was pointing out how the EPL wasnt that great of a league at all back then, so you winning the domestic title back then wasnt particularly difficult, or at least no more difficult than it was for us to do this season. you going to even try and lie through ur teeth and say that 3rd and 4th in england (chelsea,leeds) are better than sevilla and valencia? like i pointed out, very clearly, the english teams were the little bitches of europe before, the spanish, english, and bayern munich were happy when they drew them.

@diatus, come on bud, we had many many agreements in the past before the rather strange events of december. but glad you enjoyed the posts, it hit a nerve so hard when i read that stupid post by that united fan. the english need to be reminded of reality. and im on a mission to do it. here and in my daily life.

BTW, if united win on wed, IT IS NOT A TREBLE. you cannot count the carling cup! having two domestic cups is just complete crap.

The Carling Cup is a RUBBISH competition . It should NOT be counted as part of a treble . It is a Mickey Mouse trophy !!

In answer to the question of how many La Liga games I have watched, in all honesty, not very many, but the ones that I have seen the standard of defending has not been great.
Chelsea did park the bus and Barca were definately the better footballing side over the two legs, but football is all about scoring goals and over the two legs chelsea carved out the better chances and were a little unlucky with one or two decisions, they also restricted Barca to few genuine opportunities which is also a side of the game that should be applauded more.
But fair play to Barca, they kept forcing the issue and found a way to get the job done, coz greatness can also be measured by a team who despite being under par, still find a way to progress, and make no mistake about it, I have no hesitation in saying that Barca are a great team.
Looking at the semi in isolation, then you were lucky to get through, but looking at it as part of a season long campaign then Barca deserve to be in Rome for the sheer quality of thier football, and I believe that the two best teams have made it through, which very rarely happens.
But I stand by what I said earlier, your nearest challengers in La Liga, Real Madrid, would struggle to finish in the top four in England, so the stats that you have ammassed are impressive, but could also be misleading due to a slight lack of geniune world class teams in La Liga this season.
And by the way, it wasnt a United fan who said that we are going for a treble, it was one of your if Im not mistaken.

I do have a tremendous respect for english football fans. They are loyal and don't hesitate to always support their teams. Culés should learn from them (but that would mean our managers would last 20 years even if they don't win anything..which is not really going to happen at Barça, madrid or any spanish team). But on the other hand, they're quite short minded. We are kind of open minded, mostly because all the international influences we have had in our team. We have been able to know and appreciate brazilian, argentinian, dutch (of course), spanish, african, french and even english football sometimes in our team, and our rivals in la liga. Maybe they haven't had that chance. Maybe they still believe lampard and giggs are better than carlos tevez. I don't know. They should at least try to be interested in other but EPLif they're true football fans. So you don't get surprised by teams like villarreal, atletico de madrid or porto. I'm even watching MLS now and find it quite interesting. Expand, so when you defend your team, you can have more and better arguments than "we're better than chelsea so we're better than you".

Look guys, I was just reading through some of your replies to my earlier post, and some of your repies are valid, but you have to realise that football is not just about pretty football, its about defending AND atacking, and ultimately its about WINNING. You can play all the beautiful football in the world, but if you dont win then you have failed, you dont get extra points for artistic impression and you guys are just plain wrong not to recognise the art in the defensive side of the game.
There is no right way or wrong way , just a winning way or losing way.
Last season United set out to win The Champions League, we combined attacking football when we needed it with defensive football when we needed it, and ultimately we suceeded.
Some people on here are saying that Barca dominated United last season in the semi final, but possession without penetration will NOT win any footnall match and over the two legs I cant remember our Keeper being troubled even once, Barca could have played all night long and they still would not have scored, so if thats what you call domination then fair enough.

@Fred The Red,
Assuming that most or all of Barça and Manchester United fans are biased towards their own club , if " neutral " fans who are NOT fans of either La Liga or the EPL were asked to choose the best overall in terms of talent , skill and entertainment value between Barça and MU , whom would you think they will choose ? I don't know about you but I put my money on Barça . Don't get me wrong MU are a strong and a good club but they just don't do it for me !!

To Blaugranaboy, congratulations, you have suceeded in totally demolishing points that I DIDNT even make.
I never said that Madrid have always been a bad team, I didnt say that the EPL has always been the dominant league and I certainly didnt say that we were the better team in the final against Bayern, those were your words my freind, not mine.
I have nothing but respect for Barca and thier history and nothing I have said should have caused you to lambast all United fans in the way that you have done.
I go on a lot of United Blogs my friend and I can tell you that Barca are a club that is respected by most of our fans, so its hard to see where your hostility has grown from, yes we think our team is the best, and you think yours is, thats normal, but you should try to look at yourself in the mirror, coz some of the things you accuse the United fans of, you are actually the most gulity one of all.

Respect.

u guys really try arguin with these english fans....i get frustrated easily when trying to make them see an obvious point....thats jst the way the world is...

btw, i like the bright mango colour....not that i dislike any barca jersey

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaw waaaaaaaaaaaaaaw.

all my friends don't get angry.
we know what football is?


really i am somalian(africa).
i live in london.
i have been here since 2001.
my home near chelsea's stadium(Stamford Bridge)
really i have intered 10 times( chelsea 1-2 barcelona) and chelsea 1-1 barcelona(2009).
and other games all champions league.
i have never tried to watch chelsea's epl games
even agianst top teams how many times i get the ticket for free but always i given my friend who is fan of chelsea. we were two seats during chelsea 1-1 fc barcelona(2009).
realy he is fun of chelsea but he always watches barca games.
before two weeks he asked one question he said i am your friend and always come to you to watch barcelona games so why you didn't watch the chelsea games?
i said to him really i was fun of barcelona since 1998.
but also i am fun of football so if they playes good as barca playes i will watch chelsea for you to share your time to watch your team.

but the question is why am i not watch enlish footballs? because they don't allow to keep the ball on the ground and i
don't like the team to throw the ball away.


the point i need to talk is english funs always
says EPL is the best,but it's not.
EPL is league to compete money not football.
and as i always says english funs
don't talk football, but talk rugby.

sorry Fred The Red talk rugby, not football.

@Fcb Holland, I cant answer the question from a neutral point of view, Ive been a United supporter for over 25 years, I attended thier Centre of Excellence for two years many moons ago and can remember the dark days when we were a shadow of the team that we were in the sixties and at presnt, so as you can guess, I am very biased. As for United not doing it for you, no problem mate, you are drawn to Barca, nothing wrong with that, they are a brilliant club with a proud history, theres certainly plenty of things to admire about them, and to be honest with you mate, they are a club that I have always repected cuase in many ways they are similar to United and in all sincerity, if we lose next week, then I cant think of a better club to lose to, but I will be gutted if we do.

@Fred The Red,
Ok . We may be on two opposite sides of the argument but at least we share a mutual respect for our clubs . Let's hope we have an open , clean and offensive minded game next wednesday !!

Fred The Red:

waw u r good and you are pretend as positive person and u talk as negative.
so i don't like to give your answer, but u make compulsary to give your answer.

as i told you i am fun of football esp(barca).
really i have respect of man unt.
they are great according to EPL.
but in europe they are top ten,but not top three and i am sorry about that.don't forget in europe
1 real madrid
2 ac milan
3 liverpool

i am fun of barcelona but i am also fan of football, and i don't deny the teams deserved to be thier ranks.

so all in all i know EPl funs and thier minds.
so plz try to persuade what you are saying and show verification and statics.
don't forget EPL they playing like rugby.
in football yes there is many tatics defence and attack.but EPL only arsenal can play football.
good performance,goals,passes,possesstion.

laliga and EPL:

you said Rmadrid could be difficult i they were in EPL to deserve top four.kkkkkkkk
so can we say man unt could be difficult i they were in laliga to deserve top six.
you know man unt were with same groug stage villareal and both games(home and away)ended 0-0.
and villareal is out of top four in laliga.

other point is liverpool and athlatico madrid both games ended 0-0,liverpool is second best in EPL and ath madrid is four's place.

so how can we compere all this events
real madrid defeated by liverpool home and away.and we can say liverpool is better than real madrid.but don't forget both teams they are second best thier domestic league in this year.

so can we say villareal and man unt are same power and liverpool and ath.madrid are also same power?
the answer is :
in football: yass yess yess
in EPL funs: no.
so agian i say to you sorry.
enjoy your rugby league(epl).

@fred the Red

Congratulations on your thick skin but you are dead wrong and you should agree that there are many things about Man U fans' attitudes that are undesirable. Your sense of entitlement seriously rubs me the wrong way and I just wish that we could talk about the game and the way it is played for better or for worse.

First, we all have to agree that football is defined differently in England than it is in Spain or any other country. British football is simply an extension of the British male's model of world:rough, unsophisticated (they do not find it necessary,having a stiff upper lip in British society is a GREAT virtue), resilient, goal or mission driven.Indeed, the ultimate goal in British football is to WIN. Henceforth, form matters very little to you in this endeavor.One can hardly argue this point nowadays because of the foreign presence in the league but the basic understanding of the game persisted and still remains. This fact is very obvious when you watch the EPL. Play is almost always vertical and that explains the long balls from either L/R backs and Centerbacks into the opponent's central defense. Play is, therefore, shortened and form is somewhat lost because patterns are lost during this exercise. If you look at Holland, Spain,France,Brazil,Mexico and even Germany, you find different patterns of movement from players than you would find in England. Wenger and his Arsenal are the only team I can see attempt to play football the way the rest of the world does. Now, is it a bad thing to be different? no! but I refuse to have anyone from Manchester United tell me that I am wrong for wanting to see football with all its intricacies: completed cycles of play both horizontally and vertically. The EPL sells itself short by mostly relying on force and speed to score goals rather than technical superiority,which is what Barcelona is all about.It is rare to see goals in the EPL that are team goals,you will find a few exceptions,but not enough!

look fred the red, im not making any apolgoies, i have none to make. seeing that ur a 25 yr united fan, ur simply fortunate. but where i live there is nothing put post 99 united fans and it makes me sick. you seem to be objective and have respect for other teams, but i can guarantee you that most united fans are not like that.

you say i think my team is the best, u think urs is. well actually no. i dont think barca is the best team in the world every year, because thats simply not true. i love barca, its in my soul, that it. but i can easily admit when we arent good, when we didnt play well, when we didnt deserve something. and maybe ur different, but trust me, from the MANY MANY (too many) united fans and english fans in general, most will not. its always, were the best, were entitled to win.

i can give u a few examples of the many ridiculous things ive heard. "messi cant be better than CR because he doesnt play in the EPL", "it doesnt matter if we didnt deserve this win (vs villa), we are united and we always deserve to win, its in our blood", "we are Mancheste United, the European capital of trophies". look at those few examples of ignorance and arrogance. i swear those came from real people, in real life. and i deal with crap like that on a daily basis. i actually dont even discuss being a die hard football fan with many because i cant stand the uneducated, unobjective, and GLORY HUNTING following of a majority of football fans.

and in my previous post, i wasnt really going at u per se, i was having a go at english fans in general recently, and ill admit it, mostly united fans. i was just saying how everyone says us beating chelsea was fortunate (and validly so on the second leg) but to this day, from the many united fans i know have NEVER once heard one admit ur win vs munich was lucky. (actually one, a good friend)

so i wasnt blasting u, just the arrogance and short term memory disorder of the english fans/press in general.

Furthermore, just to emphasize the point, I remember, just this season, Real Madrid taking a lot of flack from their "own" newspaper for winning without sparkle after a fantastic streak of wins. It just goes to show how important the aesthetic aspect of the game is important to tru football fanatics because those are the things we remember long after the game is over, long after players retire and long after trophies are placed in museums. I remember Jean Amadou Tigana because he was elegant in the way he looked for either Plaitini, Giresse or Papin; I remember Roger Mendy because he showed the way forward in his team's offensive effort; I remember Fernando Redondo because he was elegant within the context of his team's architectural scheme, I remember Battistuta because he fit within his team and was in charge of completing Argentina's offensive cycle of play...All these players and teams are remembered because they belonged to teams that agreed to follow the process of building, troubleshooting, moving for and with, and proding play. This aspect of the game is why I, like the majority of football fans watch the game, not the EPL's "kick it upfield, bump into one another, and you might get a goal philosophy". If I really wanted to just see this somewhat brute and almost "animal" athleticism then I could have simply chosen American football or rugby!!!

amazing how the phrase "sense of self entitlment" doesnt only come from me. a person an entire continent away gets the exact same feeling and uses the exact same words. conincidence?

lastly, just to make things a bit more clear.

fred, when i said u were fortunate, i didnt mean in being a united fan, just in ur timing. so i cannot call u bandwagoning, glory hunter. which if u were a post 99 fan, i wouldnt have even continued the convo.

and diatus, totally agree about football and it being a journey to a destination. its a fundamental differnce between spanish especially (but also italians) and english. madrid fires coaches that win titles because the football isnt good enough, if barca tried those defensive tactics like chelsea did, lol, wow, that would be like the biggest crime in catalonia. but its a philopshy that nobody will budge on. frankly i belive its because the english treams were so bad for so long that now that they are good and winning, they are terrified of losing and going back to the days of being europe's catch up leauge.

and redondo, lol, wow, havent thought of that man in years. he really was a quality player. another play i just love that ill remember in yrs is seedorf, unbelievable underrated player with such elegance and skill.

@ Diatus, read my post again my friend, I never said that the way Barca played football was wrong, in fact I said the complete opposite, there is no right or wrong way to play football, only personal preference, it is You that is saying that EPL teams play in the wrong way, Im saying that both ways are valid and at the end of the day the team that wins is justified in their tactics, cause the object of all sports is to win.
Thats the whole point of my argument, it is you that is saying you must play like this or you must play like that, rubbish, you can play whatever way you want, but if you can combine the best of both styles then even better.
Its funny that you mention Brazil in your post because Kaka said himself that the style United play reminded him of Brazil, now surely he cant be accused of being a blinded EPL supporter, and by the way, Im Irish, not English.

Here is the Kaka quote,
"Obviously, Ronaldo and Rooney are very skilful, but they all play well with the ball on the floor. They play the passing game. They did not use any long balls against us.

"People always say that Arsenal play a Brazilian style of football, but I think Manchester United are more Brazilian in their way of playing than the Arsenal players are."

@blaugranaboy; the relity is this, Barca have a philosophy of open and expansive football and that is to be admired, its good to watch and can be effective, United also had this philosophy stretching right back to the fifties, but lets be honest here my freind, Barca and United are two massive clubs that have seriously underachieved in the Champions League, time and time again we attacked teams who on paper were inferior to us, only to get picked off on the the break by fast counter attacks, it was heartbreaking to see this and something had to change.
Now we play a more pragmatic game were we keep ourselves solid and wait for the right moment to attack with pace and by doing this we have won the trophy last season and reached the final again.
I cant see the problem with this approach and if it continues to bring success I certainly wont apologise for.
The ablity to attack is great and noble, the ability to defend is a big plus, but the ability to do both when needed is a strong combination, thats all Im saying.

Watch the new Nike Barca ad and get goosebumps.
LINK

I do like the pragmatic part of utd game. It shows that they are a mature team. Reminds me our 2006 season, specially that game at home against milan.
It's in us to prove we can also be pragmatic besides of playing great footbal. And that, to be honest, is yet to prove by this Barça. If we are winning 2-0 i really don't want them to go for the 3rd. Really don't. Agains madrid, at the Bernabeu, yes, bring it on, but not in Rome. It will be one of those games that could change in a minute. Or a second.
Quoting Cruyff: Keep it simple, circulate the ball, make them run, take advantage of the fact that their forwards don't specially love pressing (except for tevez). And don't give up stupid balls that could end up in a counter-attack. And keep the diving chances of you know who to the minimum.

@Diatus, to label United a kick and rush team is just plain stupid and not worthy of reply.
You obviously have not studied what kind of football a team that contains Scholes, Carrick, Berbatov, Rooney, Giggs, Ronaldo, Tevez, Evra and Ferdinand play. Every one of these players like to play football and would be rubbish at playing kick and rush football even if they tried.
Scholes, Carrick and Bebatov are three of the most cultured players around, Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez provide the cutting edge, maybe not as expansive as Barca, but a FOOTBALL team nonetheless.

@Fred

No, I was refering the English style not United per say. In addition, only the first part of my post was directed at you not all of it.

My argument being about the overall tendency of EPL fans to ONLY qualify the English way of playing football the "right" way because it is the system that seems to only have one goal:WIN.

On this forum, my friend, we are civil and base any argument on its merits. There's no need to resort to diminutives.

I truly applaud you for standing up for what you believe in.But it is pretty clear that Blaugranaboy, FCB Holland and the rest of the forum have soundly dismantle everything you've put forth.So, I have nothing to say to you in particular.
have soundly

@ Diatus, it might be clear to you mate, its certainly not clear to me. My opinions are not absolute in thier correctness because my opinions are borne out of my preference, just in the same way that you and the fellow Barca posters that you quoted that proved me wrong have based thier opinions on their personal preference.
Only if you can prove that there is an absolute right way to play football can you then say that I am wrong, good luck trying to prove it.
Its like having a preference for chocolate ice cream and then telling someone that prefers vanilla flavour that he is wrong simply because you prefer chocolate. Both are nice.

@Fred,

You are absolutely correct with your last post and I agree since that is the very point I am trying to make. It is about preference and most of us on this forum prefer something other than the English way of playing football. I think this is a simple enough statement to not be argued over. You actually sound like a decent fan, who respects other teams and their styles of playing football and I applaud that, as I said.

However, the majority of the Man. U. and EPL fans I know are not like you. They tend to always stand on a soapbox and proclaim the greatness of their style of play (throughout history), its superiority to all else created by humanity and its inherent entitlement to success on the field. This is simply what I was disputing in my post and my reasons for being a fan of something other than the EPL style of play.

I think that it is my prerogative to argue this point as much as it is yours to say the opposite BUT we don't have to be brash or rude to each other,hee?!

There is no absolute in football and no one made this argument. You created it in your last post. I made observations that are widely understood and accepted.Then, I explained the reasons why we shouldn't be called "second tier" (again, not by you but other EPL fans). Thus, you shouldn't even argue this point because it is redundant since as you know, absolutes are always negated by bias or preference. This was pointless for me to explain because you agreed with the idea of it all.

@Diatus

I don't understand how any of the mentioned posters have dismantled anything that Fred the Red has put forward, he has made points on United, whereas the rest have merely used him as a scapegoat to vent on their hatred for the EPL.

a note about United supporters, yes there are bandwagon supporters. But when you talk to a real supporter you'll understand their loyalty doesn't only come from the club winning all the time. Every team has bandwagon supporters and I'm sure Barcelona has too, so it's not even worth getting into.

So claiming a generalisation on all fans is hardly civil, as to more like stereotyping. there's no merit in that.

have a good ask about real United supporters, it seems that United have a lot more respect for Barca, than vice versa.

I believe the 2 best teams in europe are in the final and all will be settled on the field next week.

@Natzca

I would not go as far as ssaying that the 2 best teams in Europe are in the finals, that is for history to decide.

Maybe, It is just my luck to know the "bandwagonners" from United but the ones that "I" know, as I said in my post, lack respect for the opposition the way you or fred the red seem to have it.So, I am not generalizing or stereotyping rather just framing my point within the context of my personal experiences, which is honest.

Loyalty is one thing but onjective reasoning is something totally different. My point to Fred was simply that we prefer something other than the EPL or Man. U. from a style aspect. Now, I can understand the outrage at this because he is a "loyal" fan and you too might be. But, as we both ultimately agreed, it is a matter of preference.

@Diatus

sorry mate,
I should've been more clearer -
the 2 best teams in Europe this year are in the final, meaning Barca and United have both earned their place in the final. I'll have to say in my opinion, because it can obviously be debated on end, try talking to a cheslea supporter about it...

fair enough about your personal experiences, hope we've been able to expand that view a little.

Don't get me wrong though, I do love revving up the opposition, so just to let you all know,

here's how the game will result

3-1 United Win

Ronaldo scores 2, Rooney 1
Iniesta gets a consolation goal



all the best for the game fellas!

WOAH! sorry, i wrote the wrong name in the name field - my mistake:

that last post was from me not Diatus
apologies

Ha ha ha...I am really laughing hard mate!!

First, you hide behind my name to put your post (I hope it is an honest mistake)...then you predict a United win...ha ha ha...spoken like a true fan. Hey, I hope you're wrong!!!

I am calling 1-0 Barca...Eto'o 25th minute!!!take that to the bank. I would like that more than anytyhing. First, 1-0 hurts more...then Eto'o scoring the goal would just kill Real Madrid fans...then watching Man U. look for an equalizer for 65 minutes and not get it would just make my day...how about that for friendly banter!!!
A bit sadistic but this will be the outcome.

Haha, this is funny! I never thought this would have opened a can if worms! If there's one thing I can't understand here is the bitterness that some commentors are directing towards me and Fred the Red.

Anyways, Kudos to Fred the Red for standing up to all those personal attacks and doing a mighty good job trying to have a reasoned debate rather than resort to cheap name-calling.

As Fred rightly mentioned, barca is one of the most respected teams on the United blogosphere. As a matter of fact we share a common trait as we both abhor Real fucking Madrid!

Anyway, let's all remain civil here, it's all and well to discuss opinions, but let us just disregard the name calling (in my book, calling people stupid is not on in an online discussion)

My principle argument, apart from sublime skill, for greatness is DRAMA:
We all know how great Messi's goal against Getafe was, but it was just another league game, and but for the genius piece of skill by Messi (see- I'll gladly admit it - and the comparison with Maradona's goal; the game itself wouldn't havve stood out in memory. now just compare that with the DRAMA involved in an FAcup semi-final replay, having bossed the game in the first 45, then being outplayed inthe second half, Roy keane getting sent off, Schmeichel (who was not the best at penalties) saving Bergkamp's penalty and Giggs dribbling four players and blasting a rocket from a tight angle! Now, THAT's DRAMA!!!


@ blaugranaboy - Chelsea and leeds were, at the time, were better than sevilla and valencia at the time!!!

@ Maria Ines - Ask any football fan following regularly Premier league football - lampard and giggs are indeed better than carlos tevez!

I was also surprised by the amount of sympathy that Arsenal receives. Oh well, I think its just telling that Wenger is having yet another trophyless season after building for the future and focusing on pretty football...

Peace! :

Sorry - I meant:
Chelsea and leeds were, at the time, were better than sevilla and valencia nowadays!!!

@Nico

That was a cheap shot on Wenger!!!very cheap indeed!!!

@Diatus

yeh, see my last post, I accidentally put your name in the "name field" my mistake

a 1-0 score? the only thing more cruel than that is losing on penalties!

Hey everybody especially Fred the Red, this is a good debate because at least we get the points of view from fans from both sides prier to the final. I think everybody has made good points regarding the subject of the original post and Kudos to Fred the Red for replying to every comment and fighting for his team as I'm sure every Barca fan would do if they were on a United Blog.

First of all, every fan no matter what team they support is going to try and defend their team against an other fans point of view especially when it comes to the two teams in question fighting it out for the biggest prize in European club competition. Every Barca fan thinks that Barca are better me included, and every United fan think that they are better.

@ Fred the Red. I noticed above that you said you were Irish, I myself am Irish too as I said on this Blog before and I'm sure everyone can appreciate that the fact that our country is so close to England and pretty much all of our homegrown players play in England makes us look at the EPL a lot as we grow up and we get bombarded with coverage of it every week on T.V and through newspapers. This is why I think I kinda have a Unique view of both styles of play.

I am only in my mid 20's and I have to say that the first team I supported as a Kid was Man Utd (Sorry Barca Fans everywhere). This was pretty much because the people around me supported English teams and the majority of them supported Man Utd which in turn made me support them from an early age. I stopped really looking at soccer for a number of years (before Utd won the treble) as I was getting bored of it... that was untill I watched Barca play Chelsea in the champions league back in 2000. That night in the second leg where Barca had to turn around a 3-1 score from Stamford Bridge I saw something special. The passing the moving the goal scoring that Barca produced turned me back onto soccer even though Barca got knocked out by Vallencia in the next stage I stuck with

them untill now and for the rest of my life because they excited and



thrilled me with the type of soccer they played.

This is why I'm a fan of in my opinion the best team in the world as I'm sure you think your team is the best in the world and thats the way true fans should think of thier teams. All my friends and pretty much everyone I know support teams in the English Premier League ( apart from one friend who supports Real Madrid, the less said about him the better ha ha ha) These people I know never pay attention to any other league apart from the Epl and I do have arguments with them about soccer but they can't talk about anything outside of the EPL or anything that isnt in the Champions League. Just to pick one point where I had to defend a Barca player was the Semis against Chelsea where everyone I knew was talking about how bad Dani Alves was and that he would'nt make one of the top 4 EPL teams squads, I admit and I'm sure every other Barca fan would too that Alves had a pretty poor game that night but over the course of the season he has been brilliant. I tried my best to say this but they never looked at La Liga and they did'nt want to know about him but they assumed he was terrible over the course of one game, this seems to be the attitude of people who support teams in the EPL and not give anybody outside of it a chance.

Again i would like to say Kudos to you for defending your team Fred( what a true fan does) and best of luck for the final.... but not too much luck!!!

@Diatus

Are you french (or francophone) par hasard?

I've been following Premier League football from a french bias via Canal +, and I swear they are the most disgustingly biased footy specialist you'll ever find.

If you follow a bit of english media's perspective on arsenal - be it mainstream or specialist- they all agree that Wenger has been time and again concentrating too much on tryong to build a team for the future rather than doing something for the present. It has worked in the past, Henry and Fabregas being prime examples, but the success of Arshavin -a confirmed player - and the ineptness of the defence highlighted major flaws in his approach.

Listen I'm just stating facts as they are. For years the french media have been bigging up arsenal for more than what they are worth, and now I'm loving it that their bias is being shown up!

One more thing -during the return led of the Champion's League semi-final, I swear the commentators were even more depressed than the Arsenal players on the pitch! nuff said!

@ NicoQB,

Arsenal was awesome last year...can anyone remember the turning point? it was when Edwardo leg was snapped by perhaps the worst challenge I've ever seen...I think that changes the season and people talk about how awesome Wenger is (obviously this is beyond the realm of science and, in fact, is pure opinion).

but Arsenal plays, or tries to play, the beautiful game, which few other teams in the EPL try (in fact the league supports the physical play that makes these sort of fouls more likely and makes it more difficult to play beautiful soccer...IMHO). if Arsenal wins last year everyone would be talking about how great Wenger is and they don't lose several key players for this season. but, people who don't usually like the EPL but pick Arsenal as a team they like are probably not doing so because of Wenger's transfer policy, but rather the brand of soccer they aim to play.

@ Fred the Red, props on being so grown-up about this debate. you could have easily been less civil. you seem like a quality guy. but i hope you guys lose.

ok this is the last of it from me, was quite suprised how long the debate went forward.

lastly, fred, yup barca have def underachived in the CL, closing 3 of our 5 finals made, united have only won in finals (never 2nd), so thats also quite impressive.

i dont really know why u replied to me with defending the way united play and such, i never mentioned that once. i can openly admit as much as a dislike united, you often play the most dangerous and effective football around. at times last season it was brilliant. but thats was never and will never be my point.

though i will say i found it pathetic how u played us last season, when we were such a weak team, doing horribly in the league, barely able to score, r10 was an alcholoci, deco sucked, henry sucked, we were a bit old disaster and the anti-football played was both unnecessary (you would have won playing your game) and distasteful. but im so over that topic

my point is that united fans are super unobjective, in general, and i dont care of thats a sterotype. from my personal experience, of knowing honestly many many united fans, i can count on one finger the one that actually knows the game well, watches other leagues, and isnt biased. the rest of them were so unobjective, and like u, openly admit to not watching other leauges, yet make judgements on them without batting an eyelid. i just hate fans that defend and defend their teams without objectivity. and with united fans ive experienced that in abudnance. i remember constant denials of forlans and veron's crappyness at united, until they left

secondly, what i cannot stand about united is how fans WILL NEVER EVER admit fortune. its always, our fighting spirit, our destiny, our entitlement to win. its never, damn we were lucky, we didnt deserve that. think about you two latest CL, both were extremely fortunate. bayern was easily the single luckiest 3 minutes ever, and chelsea you were a slip and half an inch from losing.

but i will say u debated very clear minded and cordinally, and its clear you dont possess the tunnel vision shown by most that support united and chelsea mainly to be honest. so in my personal experience ur a rare breed.

however i wont wish any luck for the final. united possess that luck in abdunance and it seems luck may have come a bit early with a lovely amount of suspensions and injuries to key players.

blaugranaboy for someone i disagree with more than 90% of the time...i applaud you here today!

i have been searching for a way to argue such arguments with my mates who ALL support the english league. seriously i reckon im the only person in Sydney who hates english football...kills me

your argument just then was fantastic...shuts down anything any premier league fan can say...

well done mate. you've done all us cules proud

Great debate people. I know some readers would like to ban Man United supporters, but for me you are more than welcome. So thanks to Fred the Red and NicoQB for enlivening the debate. Barça and Man United are two of the great clubs in Europe and at the moment the two best teams in Europe (though Barça are slightly better ). Both teams deserve to be in Rome, let's hope that we see a great game next Wednesday.

I've never been a great fan of comparing clubs in different leagues or even comparing the same club squads of different eras.A BIG thank you nevertheless to Nic for making the effort to bring us these stats though.

However coming back to my viewpoint, how am I supposed to compare the awesome Milan side of the 1989-90 with the treble-winning Man U side of 1999 or the Barca 1992 Dream Team? Is the Barca 2006 squad better than the current one or the Dream Team of 1992? Is the 1999 Man U team the best ever Man U line-up or does the current team edge them to that title ? Perhaps if Barca win the CL on May 27 they'll be joining these legends (as a treble-winning team with a manager in his debut in the La Liga) or maybe the Real Madrid side of 1956-60 is the simply the greatest with its 5 consecutive European crowns. Is the ideal performance measure European titles, domestic titles, goals,matches won, drawn,losses,quality of opposition,league/cup format etc. or all of them together. There are just too many debatable considerations in arriving at a result.

The best course of action (in my opinion) is to celebrate the achievements of all these great teams.There have been,there are and there will always be great football teams in the future. The question of Who was the Best Ever will always have too many supposed correct answers.

I tried coming up with my best ever CL winning side but I couldn't even decide on the keeper (Schmeichel,Kahn,Casillas)...


@Fred : I agree with you 200% that both Man U and Barca have under-performed in the CL. Let's hope Barca can add another one on the 27th....

It goes without saying that everybody is entitled to choose the brand of football he/she enjoys the most .

It is obvious that the vast majority of the EPL fans prefer physical , speed and action oriented football . Players are turned into programmed ROBOTS to entertain the masses . There is LESS emphasis on technique and individual skills or creativity .
The club that scores the most goals and stops the opponent from scoring is deemed to be SUPERIOR , regardless of how boring, lucky or ugly the style of football is .
Defense is the backbone and the focus . Large players with brute attributes and the touch and style of an awkward donkey often dominate the back line .
The offence seems to take a back seat with the exception of a few set-piece plays(corners and crosses) and counter attacks . Take the long balls and crosses out of the equation and the EPL can no longer exist .

However, in many other parts of the world , football fans are MORE interested in the BEAUTY of the game : the creativity and high individual skills of the players . It does matter HOW the game is played not just the outcome . Quality and style matter .

That is WHY I am a Barça fan and that is why I will NEVER be a fan of the EPL brand of football !!

To all that have responed to my comments I can sincerely say that I enjoyed coming home from work and reading them.
Some of your objections raised against the United fans are valid and fair, but the traits that you are talking about are present in all fans that are passionate about their team, including yourselves and I think the old saying love is blind applies very nicely here.
Barca are a team whose skills can be apprecited simply by watching, either on TV or at the stadium, its not hard to notice.
But in my opinion, to fully appreciate a top EPL game you have to be there, the Tv does not do justice to the tempo, power, pace and athleticism, combined with the skill level of a Rooney or a Ronaldo or an Henry at his peak.
Six years ago the EPL lacked the skill level of its European counterparts, now it has combined this with their own particular srengths to produce a strong combination that has lead to our current success.
We could all learn lots from each other. coz in this current United side I can see a touch of the Italian pragmatism, a touch of the Spanish or Latin flair and a bit of the old British energy and power. our gaffer has learned much in his battles with the good foriegn sides in Europe down the years, and thats not meant to be a boast, but a backhanded compliment.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and I wish I could type quick enough to respond individually to all who responed to me. but trust me, I cant.

All the very worst next week.

Cannot wait for the game to begin..

Barca 4 the treble

Visca El Barca!!!

You're right. One have to be there (once, and to the Emirates). It didn't impressed me greatly football speaking. There was a team, Arsenal, and another, Newcastle, and only one of them played football. The other one tried to hold on with their limited resources (and we are not talking about the Invincibles here, it was THIS year Arsenal). Since Barça plays 3rd and 2nd division teams in Copa del Rey, i can honestly say i have seen 3rd division teams in spain being better than Newcaslte, considering both football+speed. So yes, there is a huge difference between teams like manutd and arsenal, and the rest.
I don't know exactly how to describe the latin flair you talk about (and i could classify as latin! lol) but sorry, utd doesn't have it.. They're strong, fast and hard working, but no latin flair..not even with tevez. You will see some latin flair next week hehe...

@FCB Holland.. i want this team at Rome to be like the 2006 team was in the CL: pragmatic. They have been playing beautiful the entire season, but if we can beat manutd only by being pragmatic and careful, then let's do it. Leave the beautiful game for another day.

@ Maria Ines,
Ok, let's do it . Whatever it takes !!

@Maria Ines and FCB Holland,

Mates...I disagree!!! we have to play our game because that is the way we know how to play football.If we go to Rome and try to change the way we play, we will lose in the worst possible way and there would be nothing more horrible than that because we've shown that we can take anyone, anywhere, anytime playing our own game and win.

I understand the desire to win at all cost and I have the same desire, to a certain extent, but we have to remain what we are: students and practitioners of the BEAUTIFUL game.

@Fred the red

hey bud...you sound like we treated you better than your own Man U friends...ha ha ha!!!

Blaugranaboy
Why does your list at the beginning only start in 1990? What about 77-84, before the Heysel ban?
6 of those 7 years were English teams, BEFORE the age of cash!

@Diatus,
I'm NOT really advocating adopting a different style of play but rather a different ATTITUDE . We need to play Barça football but we have to be careful in set piece situations and more importantly we should not be intimidated by any rough tactics that some of Manchester United players will use . We have to stand our ground . We also have to watch out for the diving antics of Ronaldo and Rooney !!

@BBOY

Yeah I agree BBoy and it looks like Sir Alex will go with one stricker in CRonaldo and put Rooney on the left with Park Ji on the right.He will also opt for Ryan Giggs on the right of midfield with Anderson in the middle. That leaves his 2 most potent players on the bench (tevez-Berbatov). I truly hope he does this because we will kill them if he does. You just put Pique on the kid and actually have Yaya cover not the other way around. Puyol will handle Rooney and Keita can seriously take care of Park Ji.
Our 2 midfields won't even compare and my hope is that Busquets has a great game. If he does then we will win this battle. Up front Eto'o, Messi and Henry will face an unfit Ferdinand... who has played a full 90 in a few weeks. No, seriously I am optimistic.
We stood our ground against THE "this is a F****** disgrace" CHELSEA, so if Drogba's flops didn't work then I doubt that Cronaldo's will. If we run the ball as we always do and stand firm footed on their counter there's no way they can win.
You are right about free kicks and corners and if you read my preseason review, That has been my concern all season long. We need to do a better job with that. Valdes also has to let it all hang out on wednesday.